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Frank Davis

Banging on about the Smoking Ban


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E-cigs to be Banned
frank_davis4
frank_davis
Via Facebook and UK Vapers today:

Now another massive blow to the harm reduction market, UK authorities have decided to ban all recreational nicotine, bar tobacco on the basis of a flawed 'consultation' and in spite of thousands of testimonies about the value of recreational sales.

400,000 existing UK users of electronic cigarettes and millions of potential swappers are now left with no legal alternative to smoke. The small businesses which brought us these life changing products are to be destroyed and the unregulated, higher risk import market will be the only source of supplies for people who bother to go to the trouble to try the product. The disproportionate and unjustified burden of medical regulation may well destroy the usefulness of the product and make it unprofitable. (For more details about commercial and economic impacts, Michael from http://www.cheapelectroniccigarettes.co.uk/ says he can tell you how his business will be affected - sales@cheap-electronic-cigarettes.co.uk )

Keeping people smoking, stigmatised, quitting, failing and repeating the process is how tobacco control keeps their gravy train running - over our dead bodies. The NHS is no longer a public health organisation, it is the state's drug dealing arm and we're forced by rent seeking legislation to use only their drugs while being subjected to non-consensual addiction treatment or exclusion from healthcare, care homes and social venues.

Nicotine has a similar pharmacological action to caffeine, it's not a big deal but the delivery system can be harmful. The government will only allow the most harmful or those proven not to work, creating a problem and spinning it out of control; costing a fortune in financial, social and human terms.

Over twenty countries have closed their recreational nicotine markets since electronic cigarettes emerged six years ago. This medicalisation process is promoted by the World Health Organisation which only endorses proven ineffective pharmaceutical products and encourages suppression of harm reduction strategies.

Presumably the medicalisation of all recreational substances is the goal for totalitarian control.

A link was provided to a letter sent by West Sussex County Council on 29 July 2010, in which it is written:

As we discussed during our visit back in June, the MHRA have been in consultation over whether electronic cigarettes should be classed as medical products and regulated as such. I have been in discussions with other Trading Standards authorities and have found out that the consultation is almost complete. The outcome will be that as of a date (yet to be announced) there will be a 21 days period and then these products will be outright banned in the UK, unless the traders apply for certification as a medical device from the MRHA. This process could be complicated and costly so it is expected that many traders may cease trading.

First one unnecessary and vindictive ban, and now another. All that there is in an e-cig is nicotine and inert propylene glycol and flavouring. There are no carcinogens like benzapyrene which are found in tobacco smoke (and in fact in more or less all combustion products). Nothing is burned in an e-cig. So there is no health threat to vapers, and in particular no health threat to any third party. If it's the nicotine that regarded as a threat, why aren't nicotine patches banned too?

A lot of smokers have moved over to exclusively vaping instead of smoking. Their only option now will be to go back to smoking. I've got an e-cig (a Titan) which I hardly use, but came in really handy last winter in pubs, and when I came down with flu.

The real reason for the ban is probably to protect Big Pharma's profits from nicotine patches (which will remain legal, natch). Patches have about a 1% success rate at weaning smokers off tobacco. But because using e-cigs is almost exactly like smoking, it's much easier for smokers to quit smoking using them.

Either that, or antismoking campaigners want to stop people putting anything that looks like a cigarette in their mouths and even inhaling air through it.

The possibility of a ban on e-cigs has been foreseen, of course. What if e-cigs are just marketed as 'flavour inhalers' with no nicotine in them at all? That'll probably happen now.

These nazis are storing up more and more trouble for themselves. They're all just filthy bastards. And one day they're going to be destroyed. Every single last one of them. And this measure will only serve to hasten that day.

P.S. F2C responds. And Pat Nurse. And Leg-iron. Plus Chris Snowdon. And now Anna Raccoon too!

One either submissively accepts this further victimisation or one fights back. The government and their anti-smoking acolytes have deemed us outlaws ... so be it, outlaws we shall be.

Smoking Hot

Disgusting...

(Anonymous)
...that's the only word I can come up with at the moment. What an outrage.

-WS

Thoroughly predicdable. Go back to 1979. Tobacco companies are not evil, they are a business. They had a 'safer' cigarette ready to market, it was banned. (No internet then, so it never saw the light of day). The ecig has gone further, not a 'safer' cigarette but a 'safe' cigarette, and there lies the problem. If there was a more discreet LED on the stem, if it looked as much like a cigarette as asparagus, would we have the same problem? By the way, I tried the ecig, and it has long gone into my recycle bin. Having said that, if I did not have an endless supply of tobacco from Spain, maybe I would have taken to it. If you have not experienced the satisfaction of nicotine, or don't want to, you will ban it, however it is delivered.

West2

(Anonymous)
@timbone
". If there was a more discreet LED on the stem, if it looked as much like a cigarette as asparagus, would we have the same problem?"

Have a look at http://www.e-savuke.com/en/ecig_mods.htm

It's an e-cig tim but not as we know it. (look at the copper)

Things have moved on a lot in such a short space of time.

@Frank
It certainly shows there is more to this than health.

west2

Re: West2 MHRA (Anonymous) Expand
Re: West2 MHRA (Anonymous) Expand
Of course they’re going to ban the e-cig. Nothing could possibly be more frustrating to today’s anti-smokers than seeing a group that they so enjoy persecuting and alienating getting round their attempts in a harmless, legal and - worst of all - enjoyable way.

This latest announcement convinces me now 100% that the anti-smoking movement, each and every last one of them, with no exceptions - from the leading lights at the top to the faux coughers and hand-flappers in the local High Street - are sadistic, cowardly, lying, bullying scum. That’s what drives them. Not the cheeldren, not public health, not dislike of pubs, not even the financial rewards. It’s a driving need to dominate, to be seen to be more important, stronger, superior, better. Maybe in the early days there were a few people who misguidedly but genuinely believed that they were acting in the public’s best health interests. Not now. These days every frustrated, worthless piece of snot who doesn’t have any real control or influence in his own life just has to join the anti-smoking bandwagon and - hey presto - they’ve got a ready-made target group upon whom they can, with impunity, vent their feelings of bitterness and anger over the miserable state of their unsatisfactory little lives and the insignificant part they play within them, supported and funded by a Government who are either too blind to see what’s happening, or too cowardly to confront it.

Anon, very well put. I've quoted you chez moi.

OT - fallout htpothosis

(Anonymous)
OT
Frank, more on the fall out hypothosis, I have dragged up some images and put them on a "stub" blog. I have colourized a lung cancer map that has a greater range from lowest to highest areas. The volitiliy is massive and appears to follow rain patterns just like your cesium 137 map. Were it rains more you get more radiation and where you get more raditation you get more lung cancer.



http://alternativeanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/nuke-sitesrain-and-rivers.html

http://alternativeanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/drip-drip-drop-little-april-showers.html

http://alternativeanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/clearing-air.html

http://alternativeanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/air-has-cleared.html

http://alternativeanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/07/90s-and-lung-cancer-throws-its-toys-out.html

Fredrik

Re: OT - fallout htpothosis

Fredrik,

Amazing stuff! I was particularly interested by the inhalation exposure graph, which shows inhalation exposure at high levels from 1950 through into the 1980s.

Was tobacco the patsy that got lung cancer pinned on it?

I'd like to put this in my blog. Would you like to write a guest blog post, showing these graphs (and maybe one or two of mine), and putting forward a new/revised theory? I could adjust the maps so they fit the page slightly better. The source for the maps and graphs would have to be given.

Email me on cfrankdavis@googlemail.com if you're interested.

Frank

What will happen to the people that do not use nicotine in the e-cig ? Many vapers use glycerine flavoured with apple/mint etc with NO nicotine.
How will they go about banning a battery and atomiser that delivers apple flavoured glycerine ?
Will the EHO's have to go round the pubs with a testing kit or will they have to confiscate the e-cig in use to send to the lab to see what is being vaped ?
This is impossible as if they try to ban batteries or inhalers then there won't be a mobile phone or asthma pump allowed anywhere. Possession of food grade glycerine doesn't quite seem an offence somehow.
Has anybody thought how this 'ban' may be policed ??

What will happen to the people that do not use nicotine in the e-cig

Well, exactly!

Frank

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
http://www.freedom2choose.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=813&start=3825

In case that image didn't show.

From Junican.

How weird! I have read the letter from the West Sussex trading standards person.
Frankly, the letter really amused me. How can a trading standards officer from an obscure county make such a decision? How does the system work?

That aside, can one imagine a more unenforceable law (if it would be a law)? For heavens sake! We are talking about little tubes of stuff and little electrical gummages which can be sent through the post with the greatest of ease!

I have an ecig although I do not use it at the moment. I have it 'just in case'. I say, BRING IT ON! Think about the number of enforcement officers which would be required. There will be no convenient 'places' to ban it in and no convenient publicans to force to enforce it. The whole idea is laughable. Any government department which tried to bring this idea into law would be the laughing stock of the world.
All the better, therefore, if they go ahead. Pathetic!

"The real reason for the ban is probably to protect Big Pharma's profits from nicotine patches (which will remain legal, natch)........

Either that, or antismoking campaigners want to stop people putting anything that looks like a cigarette in their mouths and even inhaling air through it. "

Frank,

I believe that it's because of Big Pharma AND the fact that e-cigs LOOK like smoking. Actually, it seems that there may even be a 3rd reason: The government (and governments everywhere) does not want to lose the money that is generated on "evil" tobacco via excessive taxation.

That last comment was from me, Jred btw.....can't figure out how to get my name to show up on here..

Hiya Jred! It was lovely to meet you last week. I guess you're back in LA now.

Yes, it's a bit of a problem commenting here. Some people know how to do it. But at least there's an anonymous option which most people use, and either put their name at the top, or on the bottom.

It reminds me that there's a similar problem on your blog (jredheadheadgirl.blogspot.com?). I tried leaving a message there a few weeks ago, and couldn't. It doesn't even have an anonymous option.

Nice pics on Facebook, btw.

Frank

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